Crate engine questions

WastedCaputa · Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 3:02 pm Post subject: Crate engine questions

Hi,

I just bought GM performance 350 330 HP Vortec crate engine (#12486041) for my 1980 El Camino (600 cfm Edelbrock, Weiand vortec dual plane stealth manifold, long exhaust headers, TH350, stock differential) and I have couple of questions.

Does the water pump from my old (77) SBC305 fit with the new engine? I am going to use the v-belt pulleys with power steering and no A/C.

How should the hoses from valve covers to be set up? (PCV valve to carburator or to manifold? Brake booster hose to carburator or to manifold? Breathing hose from valve cover to air cleaner housing?)

Any special hosing with the intake manifold?

I bought also 153 teeth flywheel and new hipo starter, new damper, gasgets etc. What kind of bolts are used to attach the manifold to the vortec heads? Are 5/16-18 UNC 1 1/2" ok or do I need some special bolts?

What kind of a break in procedure must be performed before use?

Why I have to use melonized distributor gear with HEI?What is the best ignition advance for my set up?

What do you think about my set-up?
More questions will pop into my mind later. Thanks in advance

Wasted
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toms84ss · Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 4:08 pm Post subject:

Water pump, brackets and pullies all should bolt up. You can run brakes and PCV either way. Use full manifold vacuum for both. Bolts and fasteners can be had from ARP as well as others. Not sure of thread sizes on these. Engine should already be broke in. There should have been some paper work that came with it. If this is a roller cam there will be no break in for it. That would also be the reason for the melonized gear for the HEI. I cant remember if this is a roller motor or not.

WastedCaputa · Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 2:44 pm Post subject:

Thanks toms84ss for a quick response!

I'll hook vacuum hoses as you proposed. Still missing some fasteners and gaskets. They are not so easy to get here in Finland...

Can anyone help with the intake manifold bolt issue?

The cam is hydraulic flat tappet. The paper sheets didn't tell anything about the done break in. Otherwise the instructions were good.

Oil dip stick tube needs modification because I use headers and I couldn't find a place to attach the tube.

Wstd
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toms84ss · Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 4:57 pm Post subject:

If you know the thread size for the intake bolts you should be OK to use what you can find. they dont need to be "special". The intake bolts only need about 14 lb. ft. of torque so you really dont need any thing heavy duty. You could probably come up with some studs if you wanted to make intake install a little easier.

WastedCaputa · Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 4:01 pm Post subject:

Manifold bolt issue sorted. New question pending: Has anyone installed this kind of engine on their 78-87 Camino? I measured quickly the height of the engine and I think I have problem with the hood clearance. I use Weiand dual plane stealth manifold with raiser plate which I like to keep, 600 cfm Edelbrock carburator and Mr Gasket 14" chrome air cleaner. Can somebody confirm this package will under my stock hood? I installed new engine mounts per instructions and pictures found in this forum.

Any suggestions?

Wstd
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toms84ss · Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 4:47 pm Post subject:

Dont know for sure. But you may need to lose the spacer and run a drop base air cleaner. Not alot of hood clearance to work with.

Al Camino · Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:30 pm Post subject: Re: Crate engine questions

82 diablo · Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:30 pm Post subject: Crt. Motor

I have that engine-don't worry about that gear. That engine has a flat tappet cam (non roller) HEI w/Pertronics mod. and coil. works verygood.
intake might be a little tall-skip the spacer. I used motor mounts from Energy Suspension I have no probs.

Enjoy the engine! Eric

MarkZ28 · Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:04 pm Post subject:

I have basically what you have, a 350 with vortec top end, but I have an Edelbrock Performer RPm intake with a 750 cfm Speed Demon carb with an inch spacer for heat resistance. I also have an Edelbrock aircleaner with a drop base and a steel cowl inuction hood. Its needed for clearance, wouldnt work with the stock hood. I also used the poly motor mounts, same hieght as stock.
Heres a picture of the engine.

WastedCaputa · Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 2:45 pm Post subject:

Hi again,

I installed the engine couple months ago and it fitted well under the hood (without carb spacer). Thanks for your help.

Set-up now:
350 HO GM12486041
Intake manifold Weiand Stealth WND8151
Plugs Champion RS14YC
Distributor MSD ProBillet ready-to-run MSD8360
Coil MSD Blaster 2 MSD8202
Edelbrock 600 cfm 1405
Headers with 2,5" open exhaust
Lambda meter (sensor welded on right exhaust headers' collector)

Still some questions:

What is the best ignition advance for my set up? I understood fast burn heads need smaller advance.

Is the Edelbrock carb needle/spring and jet set good buy for tweaking the carb? On half throttle it is running lean and sputters. Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance!

Wasted
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dwagner1974 · Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 4:09 pm Post subject: ignition timing !!

i would start with 8-10 degrees before top dead center and adjust from there upwards .. depends on the cam size as to what your exact timing should be .. you need to adjust your fuel air mixture .. more fuel with less air .. be careful because it doesnt take much adjustment at all to affect the carb .. count the turns you adjust on your fuel/air mixture screws .. i would start with 1/2 turns to begin with .. tinker with it and you will get it correct .. you can go to www.Eldelbrock.com to get specs on air/fuel mixture and timing spec per your cam size .. Good luck !!.. Dennis
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toms84ss · Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 5:23 pm Post subject:

You are correct on the timing. Vortec heads seem to like a little less overall timing. Start with 10* initial and look for around 32* overall. You fuel issue will need to be corrected with either metering jets and or metering rods. I'm not an expert on Edelbrock carbs so someone else will need to answer this one.

WastedCaputa · Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:28 pm Post subject:

Hi,

Thanks for the info. Is it possible to have some kind of rpm/advance curve for that kind of setup? I couldn´t find it anywhere. Or is there a rule of thumb for the rpms where 32 degree advance is gained?

Thanks in advance!

WastedCaputa
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dwagner1974 · Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:40 pm Post subject: crate engine

the ignition timing should be set around 8-10 degrees before top dead center at 1500-2000 RPM's .. Your vacuum advance in your distributor will adjust the advance as your RPM's increase . You will achieve maximum timing advance at full throttle and it will be somewhere in the neighborhood of 32 degrees .. Keep in mind that every engine and every setup is different but that is a good guidline to follow .. Good luck !!

Dennis
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464elky · Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:32 pm Post subject:

Dennis
I am only trying to help here so don't get offended.
The base timing is set at an rpm usually in the 700 range with the vacuum advance disconnected. That is why it is called BASE timing.
As the throttle plates are opened (if the advance is connected to ported vacuum) it will then increase the timing. Depending on the weights and strength of the springs the centrifugal advance will add timing as the rpm is increased up to the point that the total timing is in. Remember though at wide open throttle you have no, or little vacuum, therefore no vacuum advance operation at WOT. Most vacuum advances don't start to add any advance until they see about 4 - 9 inches of mercury. HTH
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