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Necoa #: 6786
Location: 16(CO,MT,WY,UT)
Joined: Jan 26, 2006
Posts: 33
Year: 1979
Model: El Camino
Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:21 pm Post subject: "Universal" coolant to replace R134 or R12?
Hello all,
I have heard that there is a new type of coolant the can be used in either R134 or R12 systems... is there any truth to that rumor? Anyone have any experience with it?
Sorry if this has been covered before, but I didn't find anything on it. Thanks!
Necoa #: 2314
Location: 20(HI)
Joined: Jan 29, 2004
Posts: 3653
Year: 1979
Model: El Camino
Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 2:32 pm Post subject:
How can you get get 32F AC outlet vent temperatures? Water freezes at 33F so the evaporator core would be frozen up and no air could flow thru it. _________________ 1979 El Camino\r\n1955 Chevrolet Del Ray\r\n1962 Corvette\r\n1966 Corvette Coupe
Necoa #: 2314
Location: 20(HI)
Joined: Jan 29, 2004
Posts: 3653
Year: 1979
Model: El Camino
Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 3:53 pm Post subject:
Ah, what's a degree or two between friends? Clean water freezes at 32F at sea level, but contaminated water may freeze at 33F at other than sea level. _________________ 1979 El Camino\r\n1955 Chevrolet Del Ray\r\n1962 Corvette\r\n1966 Corvette Coupe
This document is from 2001. Maybe someone has come up with something new......
Take a look at this. Snake Oil or legitimate product for our old cars? What do you AC experts think?
Necoa #: 2314
Location: 20(HI)
Joined: Jan 29, 2004
Posts: 3653
Year: 1979
Model: El Camino
Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 10:56 pm Post subject:
As far as I know all auto manufacturers use R134 and after having done many R12 to R134 conversions over the last 10 years and not having any serious problems I can't think of a good reason to use anything else. _________________ 1979 El Camino\r\n1955 Chevrolet Del Ray\r\n1962 Corvette\r\n1966 Corvette Coupe
I just got back from a Ford factory Class this morning. Even though it was over electrical, one thing came up about A/C. A couple of the Euro Lines from Ford are using a new electrical A/C system. It works similar to our house heat pumps. I'm thinking he stated Mercedes and Volvo were already using them. Something to look at.
Bill, I have read about this. It seems that in Europe there is talk of eliminating R134a also. The system you are talking about is a proposed replacement. As far as I know it's still being tested. The same talk came up here in the US but last I heard we will be staying with R134a for some time. But this information seems to change day to day.
Now as far as using other refrigerants. Why! R134a is readily available anywhere, these other may not be. R134a can be recycled at any garage with a machine. If you use some other refrigerant this can't be done as you will contaminate their supply. Then there is a safety issue as to what is used it their formula. Some use propane or other flammable gases, that can set your ride in flames. I think it makes better sense to stay with what is safe, available and proven.
Mike _________________ "That the automobile has practically reached the limit of its development is suggested by the fact that during the past year no improvements of a radical nature have been introduced." (Scientific American January 2, 1909).
Necoa #: 6786
Location: 16(CO,MT,WY,UT)
Joined: Jan 26, 2006
Posts: 33
Year: 1979
Model: El Camino
Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 6:01 am Post subject:
Hi everyone, thanks for all the input. The main reason I was hoping to find a universal one is for the sake of originality on my particular car, as everything is currently factory original and I was hoping to retain the equipment. There is also the issue of cost. It's my understanding that a full conversion can get quite expensive if (like me) you lack the tools and/or know-how to do the conversion yourself.
We were told by the Ford Instructors the new style of A/C systems were in use right now on two lines of Euros.
We quit using R12 due to the Ozone. The fact is Mount St Helen released more CFC's than we've ever produced. Some in the industry have stated that Dupont was about to lose its patent on R12 and that was the true reason behind outlawing R12. The same is being said of R134a. Truly this is a mystery in it's self. Money and Greed drive allot of things within our society today.
There is also the issue of cost. It's my understanding that a full conversion can get quite expensive if (like me) you lack the tools and/or know-how to do the conversion yourself.
Been shopping around for an R12 to R134 conversion for a while. I learned all the right questions to ask from this forum. Some places you could tell never did the job before, others made me feel like they would rather I take my business elsewhere. I did find a place run by an older gentleman that you could tell appreciated older cars. When I asked how the conversion would be done he explained in detail the steps I wanted to hear including that he would call me after he inspected the system before he would give me an estimate. When he called he said everything was in great shape, the seals that were leaking he would be replacing anyway along with a couple fittings.
The final cost was around $600. The only item that seemed unusual was the charge of $155 for 3.5 lbs of r145. I'm pretty sure the answer is that that includes the cost of recovery of the old stuff etc. etc. This is in the western suburbs of Chicago, labor rates around the country probably vary alot.
It may be expensive but it was done right and the air blows cold. I'm a happy but a little poorer customer. It's gonna be in the 90s and humid this weekend. _________________ 1980 Caballero
1980 El Camino Conquista
Necoa #: 2314
Location: 20(HI)
Joined: Jan 29, 2004
Posts: 3653
Year: 1979
Model: El Camino
Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 2:35 pm Post subject:
Glad it worked out well for you but the cost does seem high. I've done quite a few conversions and I have never had a conversion cost that much. I am not making these comments to make you think that you have been taken because I'm sure everything was done correctly and carefully, however for anyone else thinking about the R12 to R134 conversion it doesn't necessarily cost as much as $600. _________________ 1979 El Camino\r\n1955 Chevrolet Del Ray\r\n1962 Corvette\r\n1966 Corvette Coupe
Necoa #: 6786
Location: 16(CO,MT,WY,UT)
Joined: Jan 26, 2006
Posts: 33
Year: 1979
Model: El Camino
Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 8:47 pm Post subject:
Actually, I thought $600 was pretty encouraging... I had heard a couple of "guesses" of over $1000... though these were from people who hadn't done it before and who I expected had only a marginal idea of what they were talking about . So I'm glad to hear it's not that bad... I was having trouble understanding why it would be.
The change over itself is not to complicated and does not involve many parts.. You can get a conversion kit which contains the proper fittings, enough PAG oil for most systems and a Retrofit sticker. Replace your Recever/Dryer or Accumulator depending on the system. Pull the compressor and drain out as much oil as possible. Refill with the PAG oil. Then fill to about 80% of the R12 requirements.
Now it is very possible that once a dead system is brought back more parts would be needed. _________________ "That the automobile has practically reached the limit of its development is suggested by the fact that during the past year no improvements of a radical nature have been introduced." (Scientific American January 2, 1909).
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Got to be careful! Alot of this new stuff is highly flammable! 
. So I'm glad to hear it's not that bad... I was having trouble understanding why it would be.