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Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2003 9:45 am Post subject: Swap 2004R to ? 350/400
Hello once again everyone. Since my last fiasco with the heater was completely solved by this wonderful community, I thought I'd ask my next question. My Father In-Law (FIL) and I have built up an '87 El Camino with a 383 Stroker. The engine is strong, but the 2004R is not. Under normal acceleration, it performs perfect. But the couple of times that we've 'punched' it, it will not shift unless you let your foot off the gas. What would be an easy swap for this transmission? We have considered building the 2004r but realistically we do not need it. My FIL drives this truck 3 miles to work, and 3 miles back. This truck NEVER sees interstate driving, and rarely gets into overdrive (if ever). I was thinking of buying a built TH350 with a 1800+/- stall. It is considerably cheaper to buy a built TH350 than a 2004R. We plan on changing the gear set to either 3.55, or 3.73 in the next few months, but really need the transmission swapped first.
Ok here are my questions:
What tranny will I be able to keep the Column Shifter?
I think we eventually will go floor shift, but not at first.
What tranny will use the same driveshaft?
What will I have to do for a crossmember?
I've heard that the TH400 will use the same 2004R crossmember. Is this true?
What other things will I have to do to get it to fit?
Thanks in advance for the help
Charles
P.S. (Changed the stall speed, it's 1800, not 2800)
first off... th350 with 373s will put your rpms as such: 65mph = 3100rpm 3rd gear (i have 275-60-r15s) so its gunna be close depending on wheel height. 45mph 3rd gear is 2200 and in 2nd 3000k. th400 is a waste of bones if you ask me. any shop with know how can make a th350 break your neck and hold the power if they coat the gears well esp. passing gear (2nd). all mounts are the same. geometry of the column is gunna be diff. you'l need to get a new bracket that bolts to the frame by the trans from a car that had a true 3spd. ok so basically what im saying.. STAY AWAY from 373s seriously. 355s are even pushing. heres what i suggest honestly: 3.23s (p trac), late model corvette stall (~2200) converter, and a sexy shifting th350 and you'll come so hard out of the whole it'll scare you. 373s really put the wear and tear on everything in the front of the motor ie alternator, water pump etc. unless you wanna goto oversized pulleys. and even then, your top speed is going to be around 100mph at 5500 the only reason im still rollin 373s is cause im looking for a nice 323 posi. this is all my two cents.
Necoa #: 14
Location: 5(NC,SC)
Joined: Dec 07, 2001
Posts: 1761
Year: 1978
Model: El Camino
Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2004 9:08 am Post subject:
I like my 3.23s & 350th with a shift kit. I still turn over 3000 at 75. Now that I drive mainly highway it can be so what of a pain. Maybe someday when this 350th goes I might switch over to a 200r4 or 700 but for now it is not worth it. I had 2.73s when I put these 3.23s in- man what a difference. _________________ 78 Camino SS, 355,built 700r4,3.23
Gallery78 Camino SS, 355,700r4,3.23
MSGT 145 AW
NECOA #14
If your current tranny will not shift until you let off during a hard acceleration, have someone adjust the kickdown cable setting. It should take less than a couple of minutes, so the cost should be minimal. If a mechanic wants you to leave the vehicle, then charge you a full hourly price, find someone else who is honest. _________________ 86 caballero, 350 cid, TH350C
If your current tranny will not shift until you let off during a hard acceleration, have someone adjust the kickdown cable setting. It should take less than a couple of minutes, so the cost should be minimal. If a mechanic wants you to leave the vehicle, then charge you a full hourly price, find someone else who is honest.
It does sound like an adjustment issue. The 200R4 is a good Transmission for both street and stop light fun or track. A stall converter should be selected according to your engine's torque and HP curve not by someone telling you to go get this or you should try that. If you just go and get a 2000 RPM converter it might not work correctly or create problems you don't have now.
I'd keep the 200R4, if it were me. The 350 is not all that much and is pretty weak all thing being considered. Because you have the potential of producing well over 400 Lb/ft. of torque, if you go with a 3 speed go to a THM 400 it is way stronger than the 350. I blew the first THM 350 connected to my 383 and this last 350 got torqued so hard I broke the bellhousing on it. Now I can't drive my Elky.
I know there are a lot of 350 users and if that is sufficient for them that's fine, but for me... When I can get rid of this Albatross I'll go to a 700R4 or a 200R4 behind my 383. For me its the best of both worlds.
lol... eklkypete, find a real tranny shop. my dads rocket 350 in his olds after all said and done put 470 to the wheels and the th350 built by a guy of the name dudley would snap your neck even just cruising around and when it was time to race it preloaded and let loose so hard it spun his "quiet rubber-shaft" drive line 2 1/4 turns then snapped it. started warping the studs in the wheels and never ONCE did the tranny blink an eye. find a real trans shop and a 350 will last forever. that trans still will break your neck to this day and has never givin a lick of problem.
Necoa #: 478
Location: 17(S.CA,S.NV)
Joined: Oct 10, 2002
Posts: 1637
Year: 1982
Model: El Camino
Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2004 12:05 am Post subject:
The 350TH can be a good tranny but I would take a 200R in heartbeat. You get a 4th gear with it and they can take alot. There are GNs out there with 30+ PSI of boost and doing 3 foot wheelies off the line with them. Most of these cars are doing 500+ HP. Not bad for a lowly V6! I was told once that the 200R is basically a 400TH with overdrive. Not sure how acurate that description is but from what I've seen it must be pretty close.
Necoa #: 2095
Location: Jacksonville, FL USA
Joined: Jan 02, 2004
Posts: 4
Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2004 2:38 am Post subject:
the th200-4r out of a buick gn was a special hi-perf version from gm. most stock th200-4r's will only handle about 300hp. the th200-4r is basically a th250c with overdrive and the th700-r4 (4L60) being a overdrive th350c. where as the 4L80(e) is a th400 with overdrive for heavy duty applications.
lol... eklkypete, find a real tranny shop. my dads rocket 350 in his olds after all said and done put 470 to the wheels and the th350 built by a guy of the name dudley would snap your neck even just cruising around and when it was time to race it preloaded and let loose so hard it spun his "quiet rubber-shaft" drive line 2 1/4 turns then snapped it. started warping the studs in the wheels and never ONCE did the tranny blink an eye. find a real trans shop and a 350 will last forever. that trans still will break your neck to this day and has never givin a lick of problem.
I stand by the fact that a 350 is not the best choice for a transmission. Its weak, that has nothing to do with a "Transmission shop" its a fact. If it wasn't then they would have used them behind Big Blocks and they don't. Its just enough to work for most cars and some light duty trucks just like a 10 Bolt rear end. Sure you can build one to deal with a little HP, in a light car or light truck but in the end you've spent enough money to buy a 400 Turbo and then some.
If I am not mistaken the factory specs on the 350 / 350c is 350 Lb./ft. of torque and the 400 is rated at 450. Even after you build it up it will still have a lot of the factory weaknesses, the casing being one big one. The 700R4 is not the 350 with an overdrive. It actually has a center support, like the 400 and doesn't blow internal seals like the 350 will. It is only rated at 350 Lb./ft. of torque also. The monster Overdrive is the 4L80e it also about 2500 to 3000 to buy and install.
So we disagree. It is not uncommon. Doesn't make either of us a "Bad Guy" _________________ Home Site: http://www.elcaminoplace.com
1972 El Camino Custom 400
1976 El Camino Classic
1980 El Camino Super Sport
E-Mail: engstrvr@sbcglobal.net
Necoa #: 572
Location: 10(IL,MN,WI)
Joined: Jan 28, 2003
Posts: 3629
Year: 1984
Model: El Camino
Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2004 12:49 pm Post subject:
Charles, I recommend a 400THD for strength, ease of installation, and cost reasons. TCI sells remanufactured 400THD Streetfighter transmissions for appox $800+shipping (Summit), I would also suggest a new torque converter, and a G-force crossmember. Mike _________________ "The day we lose our will to fight is the day we lose our freedom" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG4fe9GlWS8
thebugbox - I'd be interested taking that 200r off your hands if you pull it and your not too far away from indiana. _________________ camino81
'81 El Camino (Now in less pieces all over the garage!)
Where two liters of displacement refers to soda
Necoa #: 1856
Location: Aurora, IL
Joined: Nov 25, 2003
Posts: 147
Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2004 6:59 pm Post subject:
70lcaminossc1 wrote:
the th200-4r out of a buick gn was a special hi-perf version from gm. most stock th200-4r's will only handle about 300hp.
The Turbo Regal 200-4R is bascially the same as the rest. A little different valve body is all. The ones pulling the wheels off the ground have been rebuilt and built up. _________________ Rich
1985 El Camino Conquista - sold
1983 Regal T Type
the el camino i just purchased may have a TH350 but the owner wasnt sure and i havent got a chance to look. I was told to rebuild the TH350 if it was one and sell it and purchase a 700R4 would u agree with this? _________________ busted up 1983 el camino starting a restore.
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the only reason im still rollin 373s is cause im looking for a nice 323 posi. this is all my two cents.
I was told once that the 200R is basically a 400TH with overdrive. Not sure how acurate that description is but from what I've seen it must be pretty close.
